Anthony Mackie and Tyler James Williams Talk Kid Stardom and Getting 'Sexy'

Tyler James Williams changes pose in front of a photographer when Anthony Mackie appears on set, his voice booming, to make fun. He asks Williams to train him to purse his lips like he's Trey Songz. During their conversation, Williams describes his journey from “Everybody Hates Chris,” where he played the 13-year-old title character, to his role as first-grade teacher Gregory Eddie on the hit sitcom d 'ABC “Abbott Elementary”. In return, Mackie talks about playing an amnesiac named John Doe in Peacock's video game adaptation “Twisted Metal,” and what it was like taking his Marvel character, Falcon, from film to television and vice versa. versa.

ANTHONY MACKIE: Since the last time I saw you, you've been nominated for an Emmy 35 times and won 20.

TYLER JAMES WILLIAMS: Only two. And same thing: you are superheroes everywhere.

MACKIE: I wasn't even nominated for a BET Award. I have nothing.

WILLIAMS: We have come a long way. Last time I saw you, we were doing “Detroit” with Kathryn Bigelow.

MACKIE: You were in your twenties. A child. You asked for a cup of milk while eating peanut butter cookies.

WILLIAMS: “Can someone shell my pistachios for me?” I am a child.

MACKIE: You've been doing this for a long time, and in a way that a lot of actors haven't been able to do. Looking at your career, there’s a certain dignity that comes with it. You were there before “Everybody Hates Chris.” What was it like, breaking out at a young age and becoming a professional adult actor?

WILLIAMS: I had to fight for my career to survive, and I feel like if I didn't, I wouldn't have gone as hard as I did. I was fighting to stay in power – I was fighting to say that I wasn't just a cute kid who could crack a joke every now and then. I didn't really start to feel stable until we did “Detroit.” Everyone has that period where you have a role here and there to say, “No, I'm going to constantly work with great people.” You made this transition very well. I remember [Spike Lee’s] “She hates me.”

MACKIE: A lot of people hated this movie. And my first film with Spike, no one saw it: “Sucker Free City”. One day on set, a Volkswagen dealer was coming back and forth: “Yo, are you the protagonist in the movie Spike Lee? Here, take this.” The whole time I'm in San Francisco, I have this Volkswagen that hasn't even come out yet. I'm living. Then the movie came out, and it was just silence. While we were filming that, Jeffrey Wright was supposed to do “She Hate Me.” One day, Spike said, “Dude, Jeffrey's not doing my movie?”

WILLIAMS: You had the same thing with Kathryn Bigelow. How many times have you worked with her now?

MACKIE: Twice – “Hurt Locker”. When I met Kathryn, they wanted me to play one of the other soldiers, and I explained to her that war wasn't about race; they will kill you no matter what you look like. She saw what I meant. And I was doing this movie that never came out with this horrible director – his name was Dan, I won't say his last name – and we were over six months. I was supposed to leave to do “Hurt Locker.” Kathryn said, “I’m sorry. Maybe the next one. So they're going to offer it to another actor, and he said no. So they came back to me saying: “Listen, we’ll wait, if you leave the day you finish. “That movie literally launched my career, because some guy said it wasn't enough money.

WILLIAMS: I tell people all the time that whether or not you make a film because of money, you're handicapping yourself.

MACKIE: Back when you were doing “Everybody Hates Chris,” you were doing a lot of voiceover work. How did you venture into this part of your career?

WILLIAMS: My voice dropped and it scared the production. My voice was deeper than Chris Rock's voiceover, and it no longer made sense. I was trying to make that transition from child actor to adult, and the voiceover space allowed me to do that because I looked older than I was until I can catch up with my body and my face.

MACKIE: You work with a lot of children now. Do you offer any advice?

WILLIAMS: There are several kids that I've passed on to my old children's agent like, “Hey, there's something here.” » Cindy Osbrink, one of the best child agents of all time. She had me, Dakota Fanning – everyone who made that transition.

MACKIE: Is your agent different now?

WILLIAMS: Yes. I turned 18 and I was like, “Should I leave?” How does that work?” She said, “No, not yet. When it's time, I'll tell you. I was 21 or 22. I had just done “Dear White People.” At that time At that point she said to me, “I think you're ready to go.” And she fired me. I don't know where I would be in my career if I hadn't been with someone. one like her who could handle these transitions.

MACKIE: What was it like getting on “Abbott” and emerging as the hot little ass on the show? You're street meat now. How do you feel about this?

WILLIAMS: Part of the transition to getting the industry to view you as an adult is that you have to become sexy at some point.

MACKIE: But a lot of people did it the wrong way. Back in the '90s and early 2000s, when we had noir shows with kids and families, everyone was coming out of those shows saying, “I have to kidnap babies on 'Law & Order' so you can get me.” see like an adult. You did it with maturity.

WILLIAMS: The goal here is not to be sexy. The point is to show your heart, and there's something sexy about it that.

“Twisted Metal” is perhaps one of the hardest shows to make on television right now, because you're dealing with source material that doesn't really give you much. There is no story [in the video game]. Did you find this limiting or liberating?

MACKIE: It's freeing as hell. It was literally a demolition derby: blow each other up, whoever is last to blow up wins. That was it. John Doe therefore lived in this world of unlimited possibilities. I had to take whatever was quiet [played by Stephanie Beatriz] was saying, everything the writer was saying, everything Samoa Joe was saying as Sweet Tooth, and building the character and making him this eccentric, awkward guy who had no connection to anyone or anything it would be. He was a nomad. And there was so much in this show that wasn't on the page.

WILLIAMS: Film and television often need to be approached very differently. Now you're taking a character developed in film, Falcon, and you're transferring him to television. What are the challenges you encountered there?

MACKIE: My first TV episode was “Law & Order.” It was the hardest seven days of my career. Television is another beast. I can handle film, but television – it’s been six to eight months. With “Falcon and the Winter Soldier,” instead of a two-and-a-half hour movie, you have eight hours. Fortunately, it was a transition with great leadership. They used this show to [set Falcon up] as Captain America, so they had something to aim for. But for the most part, it was a daunting task for me. How do you make it worth those eight hours?

WILLIAMS: People don't realize this about television, especially when it's played at high volume. We do 22 episodes a year.

MACKIE: Are you able to enter the [writers’] space and fight for the things you want? How can you make sure you're telling the story that you feel is right for your character without coming across as difficult and an asshole?

WILLIAMS: It really starts with your showrunner. If your showrunner wants to protect the characters and can hear them in your voice, so can the play. But yes, there are times. We were filming our finale recently. Something didn't sit right with me and I felt like we weren't protecting Gregory properly. It was going to be very difficult for me to react quickly to what we knew was coming in Season 4. Sometimes it has to get a little tense. But that’s the collaborative effort that television is.

MACKIE: Last thing: looking [Philadelphia Eagles quarterback and “Abbott Elementary” guest star] Playing Jalen Hurts, did that make you feel like a better actor?

WILLIAMS: Jalen did do this while trying to make the playoffs. But yes.

MACKIE: I am not crazy; I say it like that.

WILLIAMS: But that's the problem. I I can't throw a ball 70 yards. It's just as difficult to throw a ball 70 yards as it is to tell a joke.

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Design and production: Keith Raywood