Why are some evangelicals attracted to and loyal to Trump? This pastor weighs inExBulletin

Pastor Chad Harvey says he doesn't think his church is becoming more political, but that politics is becoming more spiritual. Andrea Ellen Reed for NPR .

rock captionAndrea Ellen Reed for NPR

On a late October evening in North Carolina's capital, a huge stage in a dark auditorium is backlit by large screens, and punchy music and vocals fill the space.

There is a judges' table in front of the stage. Think American Idol but with a clearly religious focus. It's worship team audition night at Cross Assembly Church, inside the congregation's nearly 1,700-seat sanctuary on a sprawling, multi-winged campus that resembles a high school or at a community college.

This Pentecostal church is led by Pastor Chad Harvey, whose sermons to weekly crowds of around 3,000 people are typically broadcast on Cross Assembly's social media channels. Harvey says only a small part of his work intersects with politics, but there's no way to completely avoid political discourse.

If I thought the fate of history depended on the 2024 election, I'd be as anxious as you and take as many pills as you. Fortunately, I don't believe in those things, he said in a sermon posted on social media over the summer. My hope is in Jesus, not in politics.

Today, evangelical and Pentecostal conservatives are a powerful force in Republican politics. And they remained loyal to former President Donald Trump through three consecutive presidential elections. In fact, in the final weeks of a tight race in North Carolina, Trump appealed directly to religious conservatives.

In North Carolina, All Things Considered host Scott Detrow sat down with Harvey and talked all this Trump, religion and politics in general in a small side prayer room on campus by Cross Assembly.

Harvey says there's a misconception that his congregation talks a lot about politics. Andrea Ellen Reed for NPR .

rock captionAndrea Ellen Reed for NPR

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

Interview Highlights

Scott Detrow: How much do politics come up in everyday conversations when you talk to people here, when you talk to people in the congregation, when you do your pastoral work?

Chad Harvey: You know, it's very interesting. I think an outsider interested in the evangelical Pentecostal movement would assume that politics plays a huge role in the life of the Church. In fact, this is not the case. I would say 1-2% of my conversations are about politics. I think a lot of people are just trying to make ends meet. They are trying to live their lives.

Now, I told our people this, you know, our church is accused of being a little too political, and I said, You know, the church is not becoming more political, politics is becoming more spiritual. We are therefore witnessing this infiltration into the political domain of things that were once the territory of the Church: the family, human sexuality. Today, politics is beginning to address these spiritual issues.

Detrow: What do you think of the candidates you will support? Is it through the prism of the issues they support? Is it through the way they present themselves as individuals?

Harvey: What I've told our congregation is that we look at the platform, not the person. So there may be people facing some pretty deep moral struggles who are pushing an agenda that we support. And I tell our people not to pay so much attention to the struggles, but rather to the platform. Because this is what the Bible says: There is none righteous. No, not a single one. We are all disturbed people. So whether it's some of the accusations that have been filed recently against Mark Robinson (Lieutenant Governor of North Carolina), whether it's Kamala Harris and Willie Brown, Donald Trump telling Howard Stern that the sexual revolution of 1970s was my personal Vietnam, they are all messy people. And so that's the one thing we need to keep in mind as a congregation.

Detrow: Let me just ask the direct question about this with Trump. Donald Trump enjoys such support from so many Christians across the country, and yet here is someone who lives in a golden tower named after him, who crudely insults people and, among other things, faces criminal charges. And some people just feel like that's not the message, as I understand it, of Christianity, but there's such support. What's the best way to explain it to someone who says, “I just don't understand?”

Worship Team Auditions at Cross Assembly Church. Andrea Ellen Reed for NPR .

rock captionAndrea Ellen Reed for NPR

Harvey: So I would say, again, I always come back to the idea that we're all messed up people. Trump is messed up. Kamala Harris is messed up. Joe Biden has been accused. We are all disturbed individuals. And so I think what I keep coming back to is that a lot of people seem to think that we're seeing a continuous, 24/7 Trump rally in the evangelical Pentecostal circle. In reality, this is not the case. We know its weaknesses well. We know very well where he went wrong. I think the reason Trump resonates with evangelicals is this mess aside that we all know, the platform he supports, like it or not, is more aligned with our view of Scripture than the other side.

Detrow: Does this, however, create a world in which no one ever has personal responsibility?

Harvey: I think at some point there will be a line that gets crossed. And so at this point, what I said is sure, it's good. Let's just make sure we use this standard across the board. So this candidate did that. I can't support it. It's very good. Don't support him. The only thing I ask is to use the same standard.

Detrow: You mentioned the lieutenant governor, Mark Robinson. I want to ask about that because I think one of the first things that attracted us was that he spoke at Cross Assembly in the past, and you got to know him a little bit.

Harvey: Yeah. Yeah.

Detrow: What do you think of him as a candidate and as a man?

Harvey: You know, as a man, very attractive. I think what endeared him to many people in our congregation is that we have someone in high political office who speaks our language. I've said this many times about Mark Robinson, because for every strength there is a weakness. Its strength is that it is not part of the political system. The weakness is that he sometimes speaks like a man who is not part of the political system, and perhaps he says things that make people uncomfortable. But as an individual, I really feel like the values ​​he espoused from the pulpit really resonated with our biblical worldviews.

Detrow: What I'm hearing is that line hasn't been crossed yet.

Harvey: Yeah. …He actually spoke at our church, and I think some people see him and wonder, well, do you consider him a spiritual leader? Well no, I don't. He is still a political candidate.

Detrow: I think we've talked about it in bits and pieces here and there, but I want to give you a chance to talk about it directly in one go. What do you think about more secular listeners, listeners of other religious beliefs, listeners who live in other parts of the country, what do you think they misunderstand most about congregations like yours?

Harvey: Wow. That's a great question. I would say, again, listening and seeing what's being said about the evangelical Pentecostal voting bloc, I think one of the biggest misperceptions is that that's what dominates our minds. This is what really motivates us. I keep hearing this term, Christian nationalism. That's the big buzzword in 2024. I hadn't heard of it before this year, that we were just trying to impose our Christian beliefs on this nation and make ourselves a Christian nation. This may be true for other congregations. I don't know if this is true for a large portion of evangelical Pentecostal Christians.

You know, the Bible says, make it your goal to live a peaceful and quiet life. I think many of us just want to have a peaceful, quiet life, to be able to share the good news of Jesus Christ. I don't think we're motivated by this desire to make America a Christian nation, and I don't think politics really occupies as large a part of our brains as people think.

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