What Grover Cleveland's Grandson Thinks About Donald Trump

Donald Trump is often described as unprecedented, but in winning a second, non-consecutive term, thus occupying two numerical spots in the presidential order, he has a significant precedent: Grover Cleveland, the 22nd and 24th presidents.

For more than a century, Cleveland, the first Democrat to occupy the White House after the war, had the distinction of being the only president of the Americas to serve non-consecutive terms. With Trump's re-election, that's about to change, and one New Hampshire-based history buff has a unique perspective on this development: Cleveland's grandson, George Cleveland. (Yes, grandson: Born in 1952, George never met his famous grandfather, who served as president in the late 1800s and had children late in life.)

In an interview, Cleveland, 72, spoke to TIME about Grover's unusual presidency and why he doesn't feel good about Trump being compared to his grandfather.

Read more: Donald Trump, Grover Cleveland and the story of winning back the White House

TIME: Your grandfather Grover Cleveland is getting a lot of attention in the wake of Trump's victory. How does that feel, as a direct descendant?

CLEVELAND: Well, this idea has been brewing for a while. Even though I never really considered getting to that point. I think the most unfortunate thing is the question: Who is the only non-consecutive president of the United States? was one of the most popular films related to Grover [trivia] questions. Now we have lost that. But he is always first.

This is what Cleveland is best remembered for. Are there any other aspects of his legacy that people should know him for?

Well, I don't know how many people have $1,000 bills in their wallet, but it's there. Beyond that, Grover was rather a quiet president. He sat down and did the work, attending to what was in front of him. I don't think he had a very broad ideological vision of things, like Teddy Roosevelt a few years later. He simply squatted down to wonder: What is the money problem? The patronage system was certainly something he was violently opposed to and may have been one of the factors that prevented him from being re-elected. [in 1888].

It's rare for presidents to mount a re-election campaign after being barred from the White House. There must be some sort of distrust that Trump and Grover Cleveland share.

I think maybe the motivation was different. Grover, really, I'm trying to say this in a really non-Trump negative way. And right now it's hard for me [laughs].

Grover had work he wanted to finish and I don't know if that was really the driving force behind Donald Trump.

Looks like you're not a Trump guy.

That would be a safe thing to say.

So, what do you think about the fact that Grover Cleveland's name is now being invoked as a predecessor of Trump?

I've gotten used to it now, but at first I really wanted to grab a Tums every time I heard it. That's how it is. Whether I like it or not, or whether anyone else likes it, Trump won the popular vote and he won the electoral vote.

Read more: These presidents won the electoral college but not the popular vote

What have the last six months been like for you as it became more and more clear that Trump could actually pull this off and people were invoking Grovers' name?

Well, I wasn't overexcited because, I mean, I'm just a guy. Like it or not, the president's descendants must get used to the fact that the names and deeds of their predecessors will float under the microscope of the 21st century, which is sometimes right and sometimes not.

There is a group, the Society of Presidential Descendants. We have an unwritten rule that we don't really pick on other presidents. They were duly elected and some did what we now consider great work, others may not have been great.

This seems like a fascinating group. Do you have any conventions?

Oh yeah! We don't have a secret handshake yet, which I requested. But as I like to tell people, we sit down and talk about all the hidden UFO papers we've seen.

Are you serious?

[laughs] No. The subject has been brought up once or twice. I admit it.

Do you know who killed JFK?

[laughs] Yeah, but we can't talk about that. No, but I believe the first reference to a UFO was made by Thomas Jefferson about something observed in the sky over Louisiana. The descendants of modern presidents still make fun of it.

Grover Cleveland was president in the 1880s and 1890s. People must find it hard to believe that his grandson is alive today.

I think there are only three living grandchildren of 19th century presidents: me, my sister Frances, and believe it or not, John Tyler still has one grandson, Harrison, who is alive. I never met Harrison. But I met his brother, Lyon, who was a good guy.

Do you think Trump knows who Grover Cleveland was?

He can now. He must have walked past his photo at the White House. Whether he was like many other people who confused Cleveland with Taft, because they were both tall and portly, I don't know. [laughs].

What do you think was Grover Cleveland's greatest achievement?

Oh my God. It was a lot of little things. He favored a significant investment in the United States Navy, which proved to be a real boon by the time World War I broke out. Our ships were much more modernized than many other places.

There are also aspects of Cleveland's presidency that seem less flattering to his legacy. He expanded the Chinese Exclusion Act

Ah, I took the words out of my mouth. I was reading about all this immigration stuff, and I started reading about the Chinese Exclusion Act, and I said, My God, this is barbaric! You wish your ancestor was a little more tolerant and liberal in this area, but he wasn't.

Grover Cleveland came into office as a bachelor, right? And married during his presidency?

Yes. During the first two years of his presidency, his sister Rose Cleveland served as First Lady, you can't really call her, most people call her the White House Hostess. And, by the way, she was the first LGBTQ+ person to hold this position.

Are you concerned about the direction the country is heading?

Yes. The whole concept of Project 2025 terrifies me. But like I said, that's what we asked for. Or at least more than half the country. As with other presidents, like Grover Cleveland after his first term, if you don't like it, vote against him. Of course, Trump cannot be re-elected, because you cannot serve three terms.

Well, he could try.

Oh yeah, he might just not go away!

One positive thing we can say about Grover Cleveland is that he accepted the results of the 1888 election and voluntarily left office.

It's true and with dignity. And I don't think they stole anything. At least if they did, I haven't found it yet. It should be in the same place where all the UFO papers are.

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