What can Viktor Orbn's rise as a conservative superstar teach Trump? : NPR

ROB SCHMITZ, HOST:

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban spent part of last week on American soil but not at the White House. Instead, he met former President Trump at Mar-a-Lago. This is not a shock to those who know the populist prime minister. Orban positions himself as a strong nationalist leader who criticizes liberal Europe and praises leaders like China's Xi Jinping and Russia's Vladimir Putin. He considers them both friends. So what is his connection to the GOP? For more information, let's call Zsuzsanna Szelenyi. She is a former Hungarian liberal MP and director of the Democracy Institute's Leadership Academy for Central and Eastern Europe. She joins us now from Budapest. To welcome.

ZSUZSANNA SZELENYI: Welcome, everyone. Welcome, Rob.

SCHMITZ: So Viktor Orban is getting a lot of love from the GOP. Republicans cheered him on at the Conservative Political Action Conference. And after winning Hungary's 2022 election, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene posted on social media, “he's leading Hungary the right way, and we need that in America.” How did Orban rule Hungary?

SZELENYI: Yes, it's really very interesting. Orban won the 2010 Hungarian elections at a special time after the crisis, and he achieved a constitutional majority in the Hungarian Parliament by one party. And since then, he has changed the rules of the game of Hungarian democracy. So, over the years, he has developed a system that he describes as an illiberal system, in which more and more power is concentrated in the hands of the prime minister. So when he speaks to people abroad, to Americans, he sells his illiberal system as an example of a form of governance in which a strong leader possesses power such as he does.

SCHMITZ: So he met with Trump last week. What does Trump get from a meeting with Orban, and on the other hand, vice versa, what does Orban look for when he meets Trump?

SZELENYI: So what Orban expects from Trump is completely understandable. Europe will therefore go to the polls at the beginning of June this year. We will have European elections, which are important elections in all EU member states. And Orban, with this visit, wants to demonstrate above all to his national voters that he is a world leader. He also wants to provoke his European partners with this visit because, obviously, European governments are not participating in the American electoral campaign. It constitutes an exception in this regard. And he supports Trump. And of course he wants to sell radical right politicians, American voters, the power they can get if they win.

SCHMITZ: And what do you think Trump gets out of a meeting with Orban?

SZELENYI: Well, I think that's the case – he's also campaigning, so I think they're both campaigning these months. And because Orban seems to be a successful leader, at least in the sense that he was able to repeat his electoral victory several times over the last decade, this is a kind of proof that he was successful. Of course, we can't necessarily say that about his governance, but I think it's something that radical right politicians like a lot and most likely, Trump also wants to demonstrate to other Hungarian leaders that he is willing to do unusual and unpredictable things.

SCHMITZ: So Zsuzsanna, in early March, Orban spoke at a diplomatic forum in Turkey, and he said that Trump's recapture of the White House was, I quote, “the only serious chance for peace.” Otherwise, the war between Ukraine and Russia “is going to be a long one.” He also suggested that Trump might end the war in Gaza. What is your reaction to that?

SZELENYI: Well, if there was such a simple solution to ending the war against Russia, we would already know it. I think Russia is – and Ukraine in particular – very important for Europe. So I think that European countries, including Hungary, should find a solution. I would be very surprised if Trump had a miracle idea to stop Vladimir Putin, because in reality, this war will end when Russia, the aggressor of the war, stops him. So I'm just curious to listen to what Viktor Orban has behind this idea of ​​peace.

SCHMITZ: Zsuzsanna, I want to bring this back to your home country. Orban has been in power, you know, for over a decade, and his grip on Hungary seems to be getting stronger and stronger. With the current situation, where do you think your country will be in ten years?

SZELENYI: Well, ten years from now, I think Hungary's history of anti-liberalism is really serious, and I think it's a big problem for Hungary. This is not a very simple solution to get out of it. But of course, I am convinced that this is possible because the majority of Hungarians never voted for Viktor Orban. He has a solid electoral base – there is no doubt about that – but it is not a majority. And there is also a reasonable political elite in this country that would take over if conditions allowed. So I'm actually, 10 years from now, pretty positive, but of course that's a long time away. And obviously we have to fight and figure out what to do now in the future future.

SCHMITZ: That was former Hungarian MP Zsuzsanna Szelenyi. Thank you for joining us.

SZELENYI: Thank you very much for inviting me.

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